January 17, 2024 - 5:15am
rising problems
So my starter is very active, consistently doubles with lots of bubbles and passes the float test.
I preshaped my dough, let it bulk ferment until it passed the poke test `1.5-2 hrs.
keep the temps of the dough as close to 78F the whole process
shaped well with good tension
put in banneton overnight in fridge
took out in morning and the actually deflated a bit.
Baked and they did not rise very much at all
this is a lot harder than it seems. Not sure what i'm doing wrong.
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This sounds overfermented. A poke test is not usually applied to bulk ferment, as far as I know. Over-fermenting is always relative to the flour, dough recipe, hydration, and temperatures. Most people tend to go by the increase of dough volume, which can be hard to gauge, or by time. A few measure the pH. There are also visible and physical signs that BF has gone on long enough. Of course, it takes some experience to pick up on them.
It's not uncommon for a shaped and proofed loaf to lose a little volume during refrigeration, but yours hadn't been proofed so it would be a little unusual. And a properly proofed loaf should expand well in baking even if it had deflated slightly.
I would say to shorten the BF, and partially proof your shaped loaf before chilling it.
I really don't think i understand
I mixed, let sit for 30 min, folded for about 1 min. Let rest 30 min, folded for 1 min
sit for 30 min, preshape set in container to bulk ferment. monitored every 1/2 hour and when i got to the point that if i poked it came back but not spring back and not left indent.
To my understanding it meant it proofed. Hard to measure how much it rose since it was preshaped and did not fully ooze out.
So i then divded, Shaped until it seemed tight to hold shape put in floured banneton, left overnight.
The dough seemed good when i worked with it. Seemed to have some air in it.
You may be using some terminology a little differently from the way I do. These days I see the term "proofing" to refer to the rising period of the shaped loaf. It's also sometimes used for activating instant dried yeast in liquid. I've seen in older books the bulk ferment stage also called "proofing" but I don't think that usage is common any more.
By "bulk ferment" I mean the time after the dough is mixed until it is divided and shaped into loves. The BF time includes rests, stretches-and-folds, and so on. You could consider BF to start after an autolyse if you use one.
By "preshape" I mean the stage after the end of BF, and after the dough is divided (if you are making more than one loaf), when you ball up the dough and restore some elasticity and stiffness. "Shaping" means the stage where you actually form a loaf.
When people write about poking to see if a loaf has proofed enough, they usually are talking about the shaped loaf, not the mass of dough undergoing BF.
I had considered Bulk ferment after mix and a few rests and fold periods, then preshape, before dividing
Shaping was what i did after dividing and before putting into Banneton. I did do the poke test on bulk fermented dough
I understood that when the dough is put in banneton overnight in fridge it will not respond correctly to the poke test the next day because it has cooled and is firmer.
How do i know when BF is done ? Should i leave them in banneton before putting in fridge overnight? If so, for how long?
Knowing when to end bulk ferment is not cut-and-dried, with one single answer. Here is a link to a King Arthur's article that is probably as helpful as anything else I've seen -
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2019/07/22/bread-dough-bulk-fermentation
A quote from the article:
ok so i made some adjustments.
reduced recipe to have a 750 g loaf for a 10" oval banneton. 70% hydration.
i Folded a few times during the beginning of bulk fermentation until i could do the window test. Then i bulk fermented few a few hours. Put in fridge overnight.
Took out in the morning bulk fermented for a few more hours. Preshaped, bench rested for 30-45min. Shaped and put in Banneton and let proof until it seemed to rise and did poke test. Seemed to have a lot of air after shaping.
put in oven at 482F on a pizza stone covered with Dutch oven lid for 30 min, then removed and baked another 23min.
Better but not getting what i would call huge rise with ear....
Should i increase water, starter??
underproofed or fermented?