Anyone feel like bread is The Emperor's New Clothes?
Hi All,
This is gonna be a rant against other people's, (read social media's), expectations.
New on here... but I feel a bit weird about bread all of a sudden. Somebody online apologised, (sincerely, not sarcastically), that their bread wasn't instagram worthy, and I just thought it was so weird that this person is expending so much effort to try and be validated by some algorithm somewhere. Or approved of by somebody with a barrow to push and money at the end of the road.
It's bread - you eat it - looks like crap once it goes past the teeth.
I've been baking for 40 years, had my successes and failures. but WHY all of a sudden must sourdough be 'THIS' and 'THAT'. I don't go to other people's houses and tell them they must all wear racing car green jumpers in this EXACT pattern, or they have failed. And feel they have to apologise for their blue jumper which was exactly what they wanted.
Who said giant holes creating virtually untoppable bread, was 'THE THING'? People in San Fran might like it, but I never have. I don't recall them being made the bread gods at any juncture. It's great if you like it, but this faddery and pressure on folks has to stop. Everyone has different flour, water, yeast, humidity etc all over the world, affecting results. Does it all have to look the same?
I make a closer crumb on purpose, as do many, and I feel social media has become the modern dictator, much as it's useful and friendly in the right hands. Nice to have guidelines and a base point, and friendly folk giving advice, like on here, but I'm sick of seeing people feeling bad because some person, who is nobody to them, said their bread wasn't this or that.
Good bad or indifferent, whatever bread you make is streets ahead of what's in the shop. If the people eating it like it, great! I will eat a dense underproofed loaf and enjoy that toast so much more than a garbage baguette from the supermarket.
By all means, if anyone wants to make 'the holy grail' of bread, go for it, but I suspect that is many things to many people and not what we're constantly told by social media. Be guided, don't be dictated to.
Oh! my bread doesn't have an 'attractive' ear! Who said they were attractive? It just means you sliced at a good angle to achieve an ear, that's all. Your bread still expands and is great bread if it doesn't have a blasted ear. And I don't think they're attractive. Yes, I get them, but I have care factor zero if I don't. French bakeries made rules for themselves on baguettes... you don't have to do that unless you like to. I follow basics on all my loaves to achieve the results I WANT. Which is a good nutritious and delicious bread. Not what the tv chef tells me I want.
Don't particularly care if my croissants have less than perfect lamination; they taste amazing.
The Emperor's New Clothes are looking spectacular, aren't they?
I've been baking for 10 plus years (although not exclusively to bread), It's sad to see how home baking culture shifted from sharing-culture to approval-seeking culture. To me, no matter how good your bakes are cosmetically, but you keep things to yourself, at least the end products, you are terrible baker. Period.
It's amazing how novel techniques have made home baking accessible than ever. Autolyse, stretch & fold, dutch oven, and manipulating fermentation flavor by adjusting temperature and hydration, they are something I am grateful about. But I am not fond of those circle jerks of overcomplicating things, they scare away people who want to learn.
Ultimately, people can do whatever they want. And I myself keep trying holding on my values. Most my bakes go to charities, creating flavors they can understand, they can enjoy, they can replicate.
If you have to dictate people how to enjoy your bakes before eating, chances are your bakes aren't good, universally speaking. Good is good. Your audience don't like it? It's the bakers job to adjust, not the other way around :)
And one more thing, those open crumb bread are often not pleasant to eat, texture-wise. A cost of underproofing, many of us trying to dictate as the right thing.
Home baking is about nourishing the loved ones. Not approval seeking. Peace and love :D
I was hesitant to post it, but that moment of someone online trying to help people and apologising for perfectly good bread, just put me over the edge.
I really agree with you that its wonderful to have these methods and things shown and available, but everybody should only hold themselves to their own standard, not that of others.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only person who has noticed that instead of bearing each other up, a lot of folks are wearing each other down. Holding up a standard that nobody aspires to until they're told that they do.
Its like the fad of having a house that looks like a showroom or a clinic where they take off your moles...
Nobody wanted that until the magazines and tv told them they did. And they make themselves miserable by not having a house they can feel comfortable in, and screaming at their children if there's a crumb on the floor. And then they pay for therapy.
As you said, feeding and nourishing people with what you, and they, like is all we need to do.
I'm sure those Ancient Egyptians didn't really care if every loaf was 'just so' as long as you got nourishment to keep you alive. We all need a little perspective.
I mean, just like any other niche interests, it's an echo chamber of like-minded people. Whatever circulating inside, often is generalised, and thought to represent whatever people outside the circles think. Some strive for "pro" results by overcomplicating things. And ironically, the pros cater to their customers, the everyday people, who don't want their bread to leak jam/pâte/butter lol (mindblowing, I know). Not to forget pro kitchens have time contraints, a luxury that can be afforded by home bakers.
To me, home baking is supposed to be soothing. Therapeutic. If you are stressing out over it, you are doing it wrong. There is no baking police.
2 quick points...
1 - What you describe is an old phenomena. Any world that behaves as if it is effectively cloistered has these tendencies.
2- Just something I have been mulling over....
Great home cooking is the minimum steps for any dish to give you a food high...you know when food tickles something in your brain and all you can do is smile silly.
Yes, some foods require more steps (eg- tough or difficult ingredients) but remains the goal is same. Once you look at it though that lens, it is less about fad or look. It only comes down to the very human need to eat. Traditional local cuisines are probably codified versions of this and it is potentially why the world is full of insanely delicious but "less that instagram-able" food.
Bread is such a basic no brainer....warm yeasty dough...hence it has a huge range for success.
Of course everyone is free to experiment and push the boundaries. But from the principle of number of steps to give a food high...I would say a number of fads divert people. The current viral trends are just a sped up rehash of the women's magazines of 1950's 60's where home cooks were showered with full colour images of un-repeatable - if not un-cookable food with disastrous results.
Professional chefs are different, that world is about technique and expertise to compose new food highs.
So what would you want to see in a website such as this? What would you like it to be? Or rather to not exist at all?
Several years ago a PhD. candidate, with permission from several bakers involved in the Community Bake for baguettes, https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/64622/community-bake-baguettes-alfanso , wrote her dissertation on her observations of the interaction of participants in what became by far most participated posting on TFL - close to 2300 posts. She found that rather than a sense of competing barely interacting folks trying to one-up each other in a disparate world, that TFL represents the "anti-website" where people banded together to form a community valuable for helping each other. As many of the Community Bakes have proven to be. https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67084/sourdough-and-sociality-thesis .
During the pandemic's heyday TFL saw a large influx of beginning bakers trying to occupy their day by learning to bake. Rather than being independent posters, many in the TFL community contributed to providing endless help to these new participants. Yours truly certainly included in that group.
And yes, I do agree with you on some level that this is a show and tell on many occasions. But if you think that is all that goes on here, you really haven't spent much time delving into what interactions and help occurs here quite often. There are an untold number of past and current participants who have inspired others to be better bakers, and in return have themselves improved and expanded on their own skill sets.
By and large we aren't professionals - there are websites for that I suppose, but that isn't what this website has evolved into from its humble beginnings. The website creator and host Floyd places little throttle on what one may post or respond to here, rather leaving it up to the community at large to shape the direction of the activity.
So I'l circle back to my original question. What would you want this website to be?
Here on TFL, not so much.
We’ve seen the fad for big holes. Some have pushed their bakes in that direction but it has been more of an exercise in mastering a particular skill. More accurately, mastering a set of skills.
Do people get disappointed when things don’t go the way they wanted? Sure. I do too. Luckily, the atmosphere here on TFL is one of the most supportive and encouraging that can be found anywhere on the web. People are happy to analyze a problem and offer helpful suggestions for improvement. I’ve been on both sides of that process and have benefited from it.
Bread is bread. Some of it is spectacularly beautiful. Some of it is misshapen or scorched or collapsed or lumpy. Just about all of it tastes good. That which isn’t palatable can be shared with the birds.
Baking can nourish the soul as well as the body. Chasing the approval of others or trying to be one of the cool kids will drain your soul. And holes are flavorless, regardless of their size.
You mentioned that you are new here. Cool! And welcome! Permit me to encourage you to look around. There's nearly twenty years of content to rummage through and you’re bound to find some real gems. The Search tool can be a real help if you have a focused inquiry; odds are that most topics have had some amount of coverage.
Paul
The Search tool can be a real help if you have a focused inquiry; odds are that most topics have had some amount of coverage.
And many times an internet search will find one of these topic threads.
(who claims that my skill with a baguette is this or that) that Rome wasn't built in a day and I learned through diligence to make a decent baguette, I have often posted this picture of an early bake to remind them and myself that I stay grounded. Not all posts are instagram-ready! Unless I submit this one as part of my collection of banana slugs.
We take all comers here on TFL and the help is often described by others in need as being extraordinarily friendly and welcoming. As Dan put it so long ago in his first CB, and we've carried forward - this is not a competition.
I bet they tasted great! That colour is making my mouth water...
The world HAS gone crazy. At least that is what it has seemed like to me since the internet came about. And ESPECIALLY since Covid. As pmcool has said,though, "not so much here on TFL". This site has been a refuge of support and positiveness, kindness and generally good manners. It helped me keep my sanity during some very bad times. It shows that the world can STILL be a good place to live as this site has participants from the whole world supporting each other-even from locations that barely have electricity and may be punished if found talking to the outside world. Every sincerely and respectfully asked question-no matter the bread, no matter the experience level, no matter the "out there-ness"- has been answered in like kind. In my long experience here on TFL, any adversarial, unkind response has been immediately responded to by members to remind folks that we engage in civil discourse here-even if we are in total disagreement.
I really hope your experience HERE on TFL has been positive-support, kindness, and civil discourse even without agreement. I hear your frustration with the world. IMO, we already hold the answer in our hands but it seems so trite. It has been called a lot of things but "The Golden Rule" is a good name." Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." OR....Be kind... Listen-2 ears and 1 mouth.... BE the change. However you want to say it- any change needs to start with 1 person. TFL was started by Floyd-one person-who I'm sure did not think he would be on this journey for so long. What a beautiful world change. A great place where YOU felt safe enough to vent your frustration with the world and received some great support.
Thank you, Floyd. Thank you, TFL. Glad you are here,Soursop.
cslazar
Caroline
...or a display of talent that serves as a reference point for those that are always seeking to improve their skills? Personally, though I don't post much or display photos of my own, I have found this site to be a stupendous resource and collection of knowledge and assistance covering all aspects of producing the goal most of us here seek, i.e., to continually improve our techniques and ultimate product....and, maybe, showing off a little of what we accomplish. I wish this site had been around some 40 years ago when I first tried making sourdough. I pretty much gave up on that endeavor back then because the only thing I could produce was either flat and sour, or risen and not. Got back into it about seven years ago, and this site has been a major help in rectifying that situation. Improvement never ends...and those that see nothing more than something that turns to crap past the teeth, well, more power to you, but many here consider bread as an artistic canvas painted with a palette of flavors, as satisfying to the eye as it is to the belly...and appreciate those who come close to this ideal and are willing to show the pictorial representation as well as the descriptive methodology. I am hoping you will ultimately share this journey and vision and find this site a valuable assist in doing so.
Gosh I'm not saying that everyone has to make ugly or inedible bread! I'm just astounded that someone felt that their bread wasn't 'good enough', when it was perfectly acceptable, by any normal standard, would have bought one like that. Not the dizzy heights they were kinda shooting for, granted, but why be made to feel like you should apologise? This was a Mum with a few kids, fits the bread in, in between everything else, and felt bad about great bread. Because of someone else's standard.
I'm glad for those that love holey bread and think that's the gold standard, I think it's amazing. I personally don't like it... I can make it, I don't love it, that's also fine. I just feel as if people are being told there's this A grade standard that they MUST comply with through social media... and note I did say, that this site has friendly folk who don't do that.
Helping each other is great - but I feel that there are a lot of overly critical voices that seep into the consciousness through a background of social media. This site is fantastic, everybody helps when help is wanted, and is kind.
I like to watch Heston Blumenthal do his thing; would I eat it? NO. Would I aspire to making food that way? Resounding NO. Am I glad he pushes boundaries to find out things? YES. But is there someone saying that they apologise that their meals aren't like Heston's? Probably not.
However there are people, I've since found more, who are apologising for bread products not being up to some standard that is COMPLETELY subjective. And any cooking is subjective anyway, this current fad for smoked everything makes hubby and I gag - we don't like smoked foods, never have, neither have our families - but every restaurant and grill is serving it, you can't escape, every supermarket marinade is full of it, because some tv chef said that's the WAY, the only WAY, and all the other little chefs followed along. Not that we buy that stuff a lot, but apparently the popular taste changes along with whatever is shown on telly and in magazines. I know a lot of people are suggestible, but it's getting ridiculous.
Here in Australia we had a program "The Block' renovation show, it's awful... Couple of seasons every single place was a cliché metrosexual bachelor pad, being touted for families. All looked fairly identical, and these 3 designers crowing over the department store fittings in black, showing every finger mark... how's that going with the toddlers and teens, I wonder? Stopped cleaning one moment in the past 6 years to enjoy your house? Every colleague at work saying they luuurve that style, discussing fine details (fifty shades of grey). Few seasons later it's all pink blush and boho, and they're saying they luuuuurve that style and identical conversations about a thoroughly different style.
Of course you can like more than one thing, but they've got no idea what they like until the tv/magazine tells them. I wish I'd seen less about that show, but it was EVERYWHERE... like bread standards. That we all must love/want/aspire to. MUST.
All of which is to say that I think a lot of folks feel pressured into those aspirations, when they're not really theirs to begin with. Great if they are, but not so much if they're not.
We stopped eating at our local pub because the chef there started cooking like he'd been watching too much Master Faff. It's great that other people like it, they can do what they want, we'll eat at home, but it's just amazing how they all follow along because somebody said it ought to be this, not this. And a lot of the regulars have stopped eating there and they're wondering why, lol.
I notice that some people say they love something so much, because they're told they do, not because they really do. Half the time they don't know what they're eating anymore. You ask them how something tastes, and they start telling you about the texture, lol. You ask about the texture, and they wanna tell you it's too salty.
What I'm saying is, I hope people go as far as they want to, with the amount of energy they have to expend, and get the results they actually want, and don't apologise for not being god tier breadmakers. Embrace the weird shaped bread - especially if it tastes great!
It really is making me feel weird about bread, like I have some sort of bolt missing because I don't care as long as my bread is good tasting - I have care factor zero that I sliced with the lame at an imperfect angle and my ear really wasn't ear-y enough for somebody somewhere. In fact, I've been known to skip that because I can't be frothed, and let it crack haphazardly. Lo and Behold! it still tastes really great, rose really well, had lots of shaggy little ears around, it was cute and we ate it just the same. Nobody cared. "Lady Catherine will never know!" as the girl said...
Bread is non-news to the rest of the world.
The U.S. and its broken food industry, and especially the broken bread scene, is starting to wake up. Thankfully.
Bread, primarily in Europe and the Middle East, is a daily treasure. And yet non-news. Bread has been a daily treasure for 3,000 years there.
The U.S. is going through its infancy in realizing how bad American bread has been. Hopefully toddlerhood and teenage years will pass quickly and the American bread scene will reach maturity in 10 years or so. Here's hoping.