Sourdough Starter is TOO active
My sourdough starter behaves more like fresh yeast starter and it was suggested that maybe it has been contaminated by yeast. For example: When fed, it will triple in 2 hours or less. When made into dough, it will rise at room temp. and be ready to bake within 2 hours. When a high hydration dough is refrigerated for final rise, it blooms and goes slack within 8 hours. Tried rebuilding my starter from just a teaspoon of starter, and force feeding it multiple times a day, for several days, but it is still very active. Starter is probably 30 years old, spent 10 years frozen and was brought back into service 6-9 months ago. IF this is yeast contamination, can it be saved? If not, what needs to be done to keep another starter from the same fate?
Tell us about your starter. How it is fed, type of flour, feeding schedule, refrigerated or not, temperature, feed ratio,etc.
Please include images of your starter. I’d like to see what is looks like when risen for two hours.
Are you feeding with steroids? If so, how would I get a supply for mine? :-)
Dan
Sorry, going to have to figure out how to upload a photo...
In the meantime, I have 2 active starters. One is white, fed only with AP white flour. The second is rye, fed only rye. I keep 20g of the starter, add 50g flour and 50g water when I feed them. Depending on the recipe I am following, I sometimes use less water in the feeding. If I'm not going to use it immediately, I refrigerate it within an hour of feeding. Kitchen temp in the summer is around 73-74. Nope, no steroids, I only wish that were the problem.
To upload images do this. Either use “add a new comment”, or “reply”, or “edit” one of your post. Once the window opens place your cursor were you want your image, choose the icon in the edit bar that looks like a mountain with the sun. In the insert window, then upload, browse to image, then choose insert.
Dan
The starter was fed at 9:00, so by the clock it was just shy of 2 hours.
If you want to try my starter, I can send it to if you are in the states. It will arrive as dehydrated flakes and is simple to get it up and working. I’d like to get a bit of yours also. I want to see this thing in action.
If you want mine, click the DanAyo icon next to my reply. My profile will open and you will see a link “Send a private message”. Message me with your mailing address and I’ll get it out tomorrow.
I realize you would want to save your 30yo starter. Hopefully someone with knowledge in this area can help. I’ve not heard of yeast (I’d imagine commcerial) yeast causing and perpetuating a starter to grow like this. I have no experience or knowledge of that.
Dan
Here are 2 test loaves, just white bread flour, salt and water. Both loaves were made with identical ingredients, technique and oven times/temps. The one on the left was left to proof 12 hours in a 36 degree fridge. The one on the right proofed 2 hours on the counter. The dough to the one on the left was already degrading when baked.
Dan, you seriously may not want this near your starter. Someone is sending me a new starter and I will be drying all of mine before it arrives. I'll be happy to send you a sample, but I'd prefer to find out more about the risk of contaminating other starters before I do. That's why I'm searching for answers. Thank you for your offer!
I’d like to take a look at it. Message me and I’ll send you my mailing address.
I really don’t think it can easily cross contaminate, but I’ll play with it in my shop just to be sure. Maybe I should put that beast in quarantine :-)
Dan
The mage image you posted was a thumbnail. Next time when you insert the image type 600 in the first size box. The image will view 600 pixels wide and keep the same proportions for height as the original.
She's acquired the name, Typhoid Mary.
Thank you on the photo info. When I click on your photo, I just get your name. Sorry I'm such a klutz at this. Can you get to my email?
I don't seem to have the ability to edit either, only reply or report. Not sure if my Mac is set up funny or what.
Oh I do like experiments.
Take a tsp of your starter and in a separate jar feed it 35g cold water + 50g bread flour + 1g salt.
See what happens.
I took it back to 1 tsp and fed it like 4 times a day, never keeping more than 20g after it got back to that amount, using a 2:5:5 or 2:5:4 ratio for several days. The starter in the photo was after that. It slowed its development slightly to begin with, but recovered.
I did not add the salt, but am willing to try it. Thanks for the suggestion.
If you send me some, the first test I’ll run is 1:6:10. I’d use 2g starter + 12g water + 20g AP Flour.
Abe, is it possible for commercial yeast to contaminate a starter?
What do you think is going on?
Dan
Unless the original poster put some in. And even if some got in by sharing utensils a sourdough starter is an environment for sourdough critters. One of the most common yeasts in a sourdough starter is 'bakers yeast' albeit natural. What makes our starters unique as sourdough is the bacteria. They will become more or less prominent with how it's maintained. So while we do our best to keep our starters from being contaminated it'll be difficult to turn it into anything else unless purposefully done.
Never baked any commercial yeast product while having my sourdough starter anywhere it could be exposed to it. Doubt I've used commercial yeast a dozen times over the life of this starter, never together.
A starter that excels in yeast will lack in LAB and vice-versa. Let the starter rise and then recede. Give it enough time during the recession to build an acidic smell and flavor. Starve the starter for a time in order to increase the proportion of acid. If the starter can excel in Acids it will have to decrease in yeast.
If this experiment doesn’t work, try introducing another known good starter into this one in hopes of introducing the LAB.
Dan
I'll gladly send you some of this starter, but I don't seem to have access to send you a message. Maybe I'm too new. I don't have the ability to edit posts either, just reply or report.
Are you able to go into your account profile and enter an email address? If you can it will enable me to send you a private message. This is setup so scammers can’t get our emails from our post.
Let me know when it is set up and I’ll PM you with my mailing address. If you ever want some of mine, I’m happy to send it.
Dan
I’ll let Floyd, the site owner/administrator know that you need edit and other privileges.
a starter and getting a large yeast population. Feeding often and not letting the bacteria count rise. That's part of what you have. By feeding often, responding to the starter yeasts, you have selected the best of the best to continue to grow in the starter culture. Don't know how much of the original bacteria and yeasts survived the freezing, reviving can take many directions and it is possible the the new flour and feeding times has more to do with its current status. That is why we're wondering about all the fine details of the starter.
If you want to mellow out the starter and slow it down you have to slow down the feedings. Try reducing the feedings. Feed a sample 1:2:2 or less and wait until the starter has risen, fallen and risen again. Let it flat line for hours and then chill it. Feed it whenever you have time to watch and record it repeating the starving process. It's not really starving but you're giving the slower yeast a chance to grow and take hold if that is possible. It can be the slower yeast are too outnumbered by faster populating yeast. Wait days between feeds. Or if you leave it out try feeding only once a day.
Be sure to taste your starter, now when active and later on at different times during the feeding and fermenting processes. Compare sweetness or sourness. Keep track of temps.
Whatever you do, don't dump or kill it. :)
Thank you! The massive feeding routine was suggested by another group. Tried it and it didn't work. I've been careful never to have any baking yeast anywhere around this starter that I cultivated 30+ years ago. I seldom use baking yeast. It was suggested that we carry yeast on our skin and contamination (even with hand washing) happens. Adding to the history, the post-freeze starter was slow, took a week of feedings, but has only over the last month or two gone rogue. I'll follow your directions and see how this does. I will dry a good portion of this one, but experiment with enough to see if this works. Someone offered to send me some of his dried starter. I don't want to contaminate one with the other. If both are sealed, are they safe the same refrigerator?
I don’t think contamination is an issue. Contact me via my profile, so I can get my mailing address to you. I want to take a look at this beast.
Dan
is to soak your flour and liquids (overnight) and delay the addition of starter until you are ready for baking, treating it like instant yeast. You can also use less starter in the dough recipe.
I've been using 20-30g per loaf, depending on size of the loaf, 400 or 600g of flour.
Should it go from strength to strength then try a recipe. Should it slow down then report back. If it does slow down and goes through a quiet period then instead of doing anything rash ask on the forum first.
I would wait a couple weeks before using - yeah I know - make it a week - then use. Enjoy!